On-The-Record
Briefing With Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom
Jack Straw
Secretary
Condoleezza Rice
En Route to Alabama
October 21, 2005
(9:00 a.m. EDT)
*
* *
QUESTION:
Can we -- you said you'd be discussing the Mehlis report.
Can you just give us a sense of what you're thinking?
What's your reaction? And also just on this trip, I mean,
you're both singing from same hymn sheet really on freedom
and democracy, I just wonder what you think you can achieve
when you both stand up and say that together and what
the reaction of the world will be, because they will probably
think that this is a bit of a love-in rally?
SECRETARY
RICE: Well, on the -- let me take the trip first.
I do think it's extremely important to continue to underscore
the message that freedom and democracy can spread, need
to spread and to continue to combat the cynicism that
is out there, of two types: One, cynicism -- or one type
of cynicism is that somehow there are people who are not
quite ready for it and if they get it, they're going to
be dangerous in having gotten it. And you hear this about
the Middle East.
The
second is that even if the people shouldn't be denied
it, it's really not quite possible that it's going to
happen. And that because a number of people seeking democracy,
whether Afghans or Iraqis or Lebanese or Palestinians
are encountering difficulty in doing so that means that
they're doomed to failure. And it causes us to forget,
not only our own history but the history of many times
around the world where it by no means seemed that democracy
was likely to triumph and emerge, but in fact did. And
Birmingham is an awfully good place to send that message.
Frankly,
too, as I said, I would hope that for the British people,
it would be a different look at America. And a sense that
the United States has been through a lot but that we have
begun to overcome some of the birth defects of our original
constitution. And so I think being with one of the strongest
advocates for this is a good way to redouble the message.
I'll
answer to Mehlis and then I'll turn the microphone to
Jack. The Mehlis report. Even an initial reading of the
report is deeply troubling. You have clearly a case in
which there is an implication of Syrian officials in the
-- implications that Syrian officials were involved in
the assassination of Rafik Hariri. You also have a clear
indication that the Syrian Government has not been cooperating
and, indeed, I think one of the lines is "obstructing
the efforts." And these are charges that will lead
the international community to have to seriously consider
how it will demand accountability and I will be discussing
with Foreign Minister Straw, who is of course -- in the
Presidency of the EU at this moment and also a permanent
member of the Security Council -- how we might move forward.
I also expect during the day to have discussions with
other foreign minister colleagues, particularly those
who are on the Security Council.
FOREIGN
SECRETARY STRAW: You ask about our speeches.
Interestingly, the first I've seen of any -- of the content
of Secretary Rice's speech was when I just flitted through
it a second ago. We've written these quite independently,
without any -- we speak (inaudible) any contact at all
about what we're going to write about and they came out
in a similar place.
And
my message is, as you all see from the text, is that democracy
is a universal value, but you only achieve it by the choice
of humankind. And that's the message from the struggle
in Alabama. It's also the message that I've seen over
many visits in Afghanistan and now in Iraq. And it's to
counter this unbelievably condescending view that there
is a chosen people across the world, who may have mainly,
certainly all western and mainly white, who are capable
of being -- enjoying democracy and then there's the rest
who are only capable of living in some tyranny.
It
is not the case, although bear in mind that when the Founding
Fathers were speaking and trying to develop, albeit an
imperfect democracy, democracy in Britain was a dirty
word. It was a term of abuse. It really was. And right
through a good part of the 19th century as well. So we've
got our own history there, but it's -- to say that --
what we are now embarked on internationally, all of us,
which is pushing democracy, getting the roots of democracy
established, is absolutely fundamental to the peace and
security of the world over of the decades to come because
(inaudible) if you get democracies and they're properly
functioning, you're much less likely to have poverty and
conflict.
On
the Mehlis report, I agree with what the Secretary has
said. It is very disturbing, this report. It is further
evidence of the extraordinary view that the Syrian elites
have held for the Lebanon, which is that they regard it
as a subordinate territory and not as an independent state.
And as you know, even now they still do not recognize
it. They do not have an embassy there. They see it as
a fiefdom. And it was that arrogance that seems to have
led to people very close to the top of the Syrian regime
from being implicated in the murder of Hariri. It's an
unpleasant story and it's one that the international community
is going to take very seriously, indeed.
SECRETARY
RICE: (Off-mike.)
QUESTION:
Thank you, Madame Secretary. Lebanon clearly doesn't have
the capacity to prosecute in Syria, I would suppose. Isn't
it inevitable that the United Nations would have to create
some sort of tribunal in which these crimes can be prosecuted
after being investigated? And I wonder if you could tell
us how further advanced your thinking is about what the
United Nations Security Council might do, both in the
area of compliance to direct Syria to comply with the
investigation, which it has been found not to be doing
and in the other areas that you are concerned about of
support for terrorism? Thank you. The question would be
useful for both of you, if you don't mind.
SECRETARY
RICE: On the forum that prosecution would take,
I don't want to get ahead of us. I know that there have
been numerous meetings and discussions about what kind
of mechanism might be used to bring people to justice.
There are, of course, limitations for the Lebanese but
everybody believes that there's -- in fact, the Lebanese
have to be also very much involved in this process, even
in the lead, but the mechanism people are having -- or
going to have further discussions. I might note that,
I think that there is very strong support for the extension
of the time of the Mehlis activity, perhaps to December
15th because Mehlis has made clear that he needs more
time to fully pursue this investigation. And my understanding
is that the Lebanese Government wants him to have that
time.
And
so there is some time here to think about the mechanism
because this is going to continue, at least until December
15th, I believe. I think the Secretary General I hope
will be receptive to that idea.
As
to what we do next, that's what we're going to have to
discuss. Most people have said let's see what's in the
Mehlis report and then see what is demanded. We do, of
course, also know that there is a report coming on Resolution
1559 as well, concerning compliance with the aftermath
of the withdrawal of Syrian forces. So there's a lot on
the table, Steve. They've obviously -- I think the Security
Council is going to have to be a focal point for it, but
let us get through these consultations over the next few
hours because everybody's just now having a chance to
have seen the report.
QUESTION:
Thanks.
FOREIGN
SECRETARY STRAW: All I'd add to that is that
on the issue of the judicial forum. I mean in principle,
I think we all take the view that it seconds us slightly.
It's a far better forum for the tribunal to be a domestic
one because it's by that process that societies are better
able to come to terms with what has happened in their
midst. Whether that's possible with the Lebanon, I mean,
we're going to have to talk about and is able to
(inaudible) of the intensive consultations that will be
taking place, as the Secretary indicated, over the next
few days.
|